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[2025-07-01 19:32:08] - paul: "You don't think doubling or tripling labor costs" tripling? i didn't have any clue how many people at your workplace worked for the tipped minimum wage, i'm not sure how nyc deals with tipped minimum wages, or the proposal to change the nyc *tipped* minimum wage, and i didn't know the dc minimum wage. sorry. ~a
[2025-07-01 19:25:26] - paul: "I'm very confused by your 'if your car costs 1/3' comments as well". you typically get lyft rides to the airport in a $22k corolla, not a $53k model y with fsd. you at least agree depreciation per mile of a cheaper car will be lower than depreciation per mile on a more expensive car? ~a
[2025-07-01 19:21:55] - paul: "It seems very unlikely that it's going to have depreciated by hundreds of dollars as a result of those miles driven" oh, i get it now. yes, i agree if you rent your tesla out for a two hours, and it makes $200, the car won't depreciate $200. (($200)*(175k miles)/($45k+$8k for fsd-$5k for resale)/(2 hours) = it would have to move at 360 mph). but, in that case aren't you ignoring all of the other costs? ~a
[2025-07-01 19:13:53] - a: "maybe even 25 in unrealistic for city-wide" The one-size-fits-all aspect is one of the big problems with minimum wages. Not all areas of a city can support that, not all jobs are worth paying that much... -Paul
[2025-07-01 19:12:26] - a: "that's surprising to me" Really? Current DC minimum wage is ~$17 an hour (~$10 an hour for tipped employees). You don't think doubling or tripling labor costs (which represents roughly half of our expenses) would put us out of business? -Paul
[2025-07-01 19:10:15] - a: It seems very unlikely that it's going to have depreciated by hundreds of dollars as a result of those miles driven. So I don't see how it isn't even close to possible to make money that way. -Paul
[2025-07-01 19:09:09] - a: "i don't follow, can you make an example please?" I'm very confused by your "if your car costs 1/3" comments as well.
I'm just saying that if you can rent your Tesla out for a few hours and make a couple hundred dollars while it serves as a robotaxi... -Paul[2025-07-01 15:58:00] - paul: "We have public transportation and people still (often) choose Uber or taxis or driving their own car" you're 100% right about the what, but not the why. people don't use cars because they want to. they use cars because the alternatives aren't given a fair shake. federal/state/local money (almost) all goes to highways and road maintenance, and road expansion. they use cars because of zoning. they use cars because of parking. ~a
[2025-07-01 15:51:47] - paul: "for our DC salon a $30 minimum wage would pretty immediately put us out of business" interesting. that's surprising to me. but, again, i focused on 25/hour. and i mentioned manhattan. dc is not manhattan. you raise a good point: that the minimum wage would probably become city-wide (manhattan is just one of the boroughs, so, with that in mind, maybe even 25 in unrealistic for city-wide). ~a
[2025-07-01 15:48:37] - paul: "I say that because I've paid ~$50 for a Lyft to an airport" $50 for a ride to the airport seems reasonable to me. was the driver driving a fsd model y? if your car costs 1/3, your depreciation will be 1/3 per mile, right? "So in order to not make money on a trip like that you would need the car to depreciate that fast solely due to the use involved" i don't follow, can you make an example please? ~a
[2025-07-01 15:39:45] - a: Like, if more people ditch Metro for robotaxis.... That's okay? It's probably for a reason (better experience, cheaper, etc). If for some reason robotaxis cause more people to take public transit... that's also okay? -Paul
[2025-07-01 15:39:41] - mig: if you're asking a different question (how do you assess whether 30 is ok?). i actually want 25/hour. i do not want 30/hour. the median individual income for manhattan was ~31/hour. ($61,439/year in 2023). ~a
[2025-07-01 15:38:45] - a: I'm not sure I understand your point about public transportation. We have public transportation and people still (often) choose Uber or taxis or driving their own car. Robotaxis wouldn't necessarily drastically change that. -Paul
[2025-07-01 15:36:06] - a: "no not in manhattan, probably not" Not all of NYC is Manhattan, though, right? I can't speak to Manhattan, and I know there are often differences for tipped employees, but for our DC salon a $30 minimum wage would pretty immediately put us out of business. -Paul
[2025-07-01 15:35:00] - a: So in order to not make money on a trip like that you would need the car to depreciate that fast solely due to the use involved. -Paul
[2025-07-01 15:33:12] - a: "you say "depreciate $50" as a straw man?" No, I say that because I've paid ~$50 for a Lyft to an airport and you said "you can't possibly make money and it isn't even close" for robotaxis. -Paul
[2025-07-01 15:23:52] - mig: 1000/hour seems a bit high. nyc's minimum wage is currently 16.50. (ny state is 15.50 and set to be 16 in 2026). ~a
[2025-07-01 15:21:35] - xpovos: oops yeah, sorry. "bag" was referring to "roller bag", my mistake. most people don't bring a roller bag to work (but yeah, i imagine some do). when i'm on blue, and i go by the ronald reagan national airport metro stop, i do see them getting on and off with their roller bags headed to or from the airport. ~a
[2025-07-01 14:06:28] - a: why stop at $30/hr why not $1000/hr? - mig
[2025-07-01 11:10:38] - If I lived on Metro, I might consider it, but it would be miserable if my kids were younger still. As I have to drive to get to a Metro in the first, it’s moot. — Xpovos
[2025-07-01 11:09:35] - Though, that is of course a bag for my work stuff. I think Paul’s point is much more to a tourist (probably more than a backpack, but likely still manageable on Metro), or more seriously a family of tourists. The extra luggage a family brings, added to the need to corral the children is a significant hardship. — Xpovos
[2025-07-01 11:07:17] - I take a bag on the blue/yellow and red line several times a week. — Xpovos
[2025-07-01 04:51:16] - paul: "The alternatives aren't biking and walking, though" i said "public transit or pedestrians etc". i didn't mention biking. why are they not alternatives? i take the silver line to iad. and i take the blue line to dca. i'm not the only one: the number of people i see with bags on the blue and the silver line is crazy high. ~a
[2025-07-01 04:50:43] - paul: "Do you not think it will increase unemployment and/or prices?" no not in manhattan, probably not. i'd make the change very gradually, though. and i'd probably argue for $30/h so i could actually get $25/h. ~a
[2025-07-01 04:50:05] - paul: "Based on time or usage?" i obviously don't think a car will depreciate $50 driving to the airport. unless the airport is 182 miles away? (hell, say, 175,000 miles)/($45k + $8k for fsd - $5k resale)*(a $50 trip) = 182 miles. in our "$50" conversation, i predicted $17 of that was depreciation and you know that? you say "depreciate $50" as a straw man? ~a
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